Following up to what I wrote on Thursday, yes indeed, four bombs exploded in London on Thursday. As it currently stands, over 50 people were killed and 700 injured. Reports say the number of deaths will rise to 60 or more once the scenes have all been cleared for forensics.
I spent Thursday worrying about my friends in London, although apparently completely unnecessarily, thank God. I spent Thursday reading the news, watching the news, and talking about it with my friends over tea. I still can’t really believe what happened. Strangely enough, people I hadn’t heard from in ages contacted me to see if I was okay – I guess they forgot that Manchester isn’t a suburb of London. The thought was there though.
As the events were unfolding, I spoke to some friends in London online. We kept each other updated with what was going on, as some of us couldn’t get news updates as the news servers were getting hammered. We did a roll call to make sure everyone was accounted for. Surprisingly, everyone was more in disbelief than panic. Once my London friends figured out how they were going to get home, a bunch of them went to the pub. They were all rather calm. It seems to be something engrained in them, engrained from years of threats from the IRA, and through the actions of their parents and grandparents from WWI and WWII. The next day, they were going about their business again.
It makes me think – as a New Zealander, I just can’t comprehend any of it. Not just the fact that bombs exploded and people died, but also the fact that most people seemed to take it with a grain of salt. Even most news organisations have been perfectly unbiased, which is refreshing after living in the United States for three years. New Zealanders are so incredibly lucky to live in such a peaceful and neutral country. The only events even slightly similiar we can relate it to are stories from our grandparents about fighting in a war we don’t really understand (New Zealand? Wars? Eh? Etc.) and the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior by the French, in Auckland harbour in 1985 (which apparently Mitterand gave his personal authorisation for, that fucking bastard). But these things don’t compute – passed down tales from 60 years ago and the sinking of a Greenpeace ship. They just aren’t things that help me relate to what happened on Thursday.
My heart goes out to everyone affected by all the cowardly attacks that are going on – not just in London, but everywhere. It makes me sick to my stomach that there are people out there who are so full of hate that they want to kill innocent people in order to prove some sort of crazy point. I desperately wish everyone could just live their lives, and not enforce their views on others in such ways. I wish everyone could respect other people’s choice of religion, race, political stance, and country of residence. However, there is no reason that most of these things can not be discussed in a constructive way. Blowing shit up doesn’t solve anything.
I guess I’m just a hippie from New Zealand. Realistically, I know we can’t live in peace. But I can always hope, can’t I?
Let me clear up a few things.
First of all, in regards to the “towelhead” comment: DartFish, I did condemn it. If you don’t get that I’m saying it’s racist and offensive, then you aren’t taking in things as a whole. What do you think I should do? Ban an IP because they said something racist? I’d rather keep discussing the subject. Also, to note, that I have noticed many Americans using that term recently, and I’m sure Fox News is partly to blame. Should I ban all Americans? No.
Secondly, I think you might enjoy reading up on New Zealand and international conflict. New Zealand troops have been present at most, if not all, major international conflicts of the last century. Do not fool yourself into thinking coming from New Zealand makes you naive about such things. It is quite the opposite.
kiwi troops have been used purely as peacekeepers since vietnam haven’t they? ‘cept for the odd medic or two in the gulf wars…. oh and a certain peter jackson trilogy (too much time on their hands?)..
Yes, they usually are these days. There are also NZSIS agents that get involved – I believe they were in Afghanistan most recently.
I stand corrected, admonished, and encouraged.
All done in good tone.
Many thanks.
Also for anyone interested, the story of New Zealand’s Anzacs can be found below. Rumor has it that Peter Jackson is going to make a film about New Zealand’s involvement in World War I someday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZAC_day
More bombs today. Damn bombs. Damn them.
I revel in the knowledge that my simple question sparked such amusing social sparring. Moooahahaha.
LOL mt
And now 83 dead in Egypt. Horrible. Although, I’m confused. I didn’t know Egypt had troops in Iraq or Afghanistan, otherwise why would the terrorists target them?
I believe Egypt is considered an ally of the US.
Mostly Muslims/Egyptians were killed. Just like in most of these terrorist attacks across the Middle East and Africa. It’s not about the U.S. It’s about wanting to impose an extremist religious government over all the Middle East.
Most bombings seem targeted directly at tourism. Tourism is one of the easiest industries for a country to develop, and this development leads to outside influence, liberalization, and economic reform. It seems as though these Religious radicals want to destroy a free market economy before it takes off. It’s part of their overall plan to keep their own people poor, ignorant, and ultra-religious.
When will people admit that terrorists are at war with Arabs and Muslims for not being “radical” enough, as well as ‘The West’?
I hate to sound condescending, but Nancy, your abstractisms don’t help deal with a very REAL situation. Picking up trash from the street will not keep the terrorist regimes from continuing to kill innocents. Please, don’t take my comment as some sort of insult to your particular way of thinking, but your phrasing and usage of particular words and phrases remind me too much of the “Hippies” in the 60s era.
And, Ani? In reference to your second-to-last comment, I think your views of “at home” U.S. are rather – and I use this word VERY carefully- ignorant. I follow CNN and Fox News rather consistently, and have never heard the term “towel Head” used on either station. Blame does not lie with unbiased news sources, but rather with ignorant Americans. But, not all of us are as deprived of respect and decency as we are apparently being portrayed across the globe.
I’m not sure if your views on Americans are from the various Americans you encounter in Manchester, from friends at home or in the U.S., or from some strange news source I’ve never seen, but I guarantee you that for every person who would use such a vulgar term as “towel head”, there are 1000 that would condemn him for saying it. To me, it’s easily as profane as using a number of vulgarities to describe any of the other races in this melting pot. Just know that not all of us are that way, not all of us think that the best way to solve a problem is by throwing innumerable explosives at it, and not all of us are George W. Bush loving neo nazis.
Food for thought… Now ream me good and hard for my Pro-American idiocy.
I lived in the United States. I left last May. You must live in a blue state.
Yes but I know plenty of racist Germans, French and English. In fact I know several English guys who think that all Arabs and Pakastanis should be put into internment camps! Why must Europeans insist that Americans are the only ignorant people in the world? There are ignorant people in America to be sure, as there are everywhere else.
Also personally, Islamic extremism with political aspirations is 100 times more scary and threatening than Wal Mart. Personally I like the idea of females being able to read and write, and be treated not as slaves or property, and I like the idea of choosing whether or not I can go into a Wal Mart or not. I think people who slag off America all too often forget that Islamic extremists do have goals, they are not simply trying to fight the power in Washington. They want to rule the earth and they will kill innocent civilians on buses to do it.
By the way, not saying that Ani ignores the danger of Islamic extremism, I was just generally ranting. I do think that it’s frightening to me how many Europeans that I know are ignorant of that threat but can tell you all about the evils of America.
I never said only Americans were racist – I mentioned that because the person who said it was American.
And I’m not European.
Do you (or anybody else here for that matter) agree with the premise that Europeans (generally speaking) often are unaware of the goals of Islamic extremism, yet can hold court at the local cafe’ about the evils of America? Does anyone else here feel that Europeans sometimes see these Islamic terrorists as freedom fighters struggling against American oppression, all the while ignoring what a real Islamic government looks like when they actually get control?
To Beck:
It’s kind of hard to localize that viewpoint, and attribute it to any one group.
It does exist though, and some of us agree with you that it’s very frustrating.
haha, how didja guess?
The majority of the people in the lower half of the US (most of the RED states) ARE gun-toting, “God fearing”, overly-patriotic jackasses, and I think they’re the people I was using as a reference (in my own head) as I wrote that comment last night. I DO admit that the “southern attitude” seems to be one of – like I said- overly-patriotic “Americaheads”, if you don’t mind my using a stupid fake term that seems all too fitting.
I do indeed come from a blue state, and personally, I like to think myself rational and logical. But my rationalizations and logic are of course governed by the news sources I encounter on a daily basis. If you’d care to educate me more on the particular discrepancies between the news o’er there, and the news here, ani, feel free to drop me a line… I’m a sociologist if nothing else.
Beck, oppression, especially of women, exists everywhere, even in the US. Many people have very little choice about their life. Read Susan Moller Okin if you’re interested.
I agree with the notion that idiots are everywhere, and there are no “bad countries” per se. Sometimes I wonder about whether one should buy a largish island with plenty of everything and declare it “no idiots” zone. Would be crowded as as hell though, and also mean submission to escapism. Nevertheless the idea is tempting, too many idiots have too much detrimental influence on my and everybody elses lives.
Yes, women can be oppressed anywhere, but I am talking about institutionalized enslavement of women, such as under the Taliban and in Saudi Arabia. I am talking about laws against women being able to learn to read and write. Laws about women being property.
I don’t mean to be uncivil but you just kind of proved my point from earlier. I just don’t understand why people downplay the actual system that Islamic extremists actually are fighting for. I have been to Tunisia and what I saw there horrified me (in terms of the way women are treated) however that’s nothing compared to a true “Sharia” type Islamic Republic, such as Iran or Saudi Arabia or the Taliban.
But beyond that, imagine if these people were suddenly running the show, instead of America, Great Britian, and “The West”.
And I think these people are actually scarier that the people you’re talking about.
But they’re “anti-America” so that makes them cool, yeah?
It is oh-so-trendy to be anti-America, anti-George W. Bush, etc. Yet I don’t see European youth protesting against these (truly, honest-to-goodness) Fascist dictatorships like Syria and Saudi. Of course America has made mistakes but I think if you want to “play that game” about which Western country has inflicted the most evil on the world, look no further than Germany, Belgium (colonialism in Africa fucked it up completely), Spain (wiped out millions in South and Central America), France (under Napolean tried to enslave all Europe), Holland (slave trade), Great Britain (killed millions of people in their various colonial conquests)…. I mean, Western Europe is probably responsible for removing hundreds of millions of lives from the planet earth, just over the last 250 years. And I wasn’t even including the U.S.S.R. under Stalin and Lenin (who Putin worships) who purged about 30 million people (and that is a conservative number.)
In fact, the only country on the planet earth not guilty of some kind of “Empire” ambitions would be New Zealand (except, what happened to the natives there when the white man came?) or perhaps the U.S. While the U.S. might fight unnecessary wars, they don’t do it in order to commit genocide, to impose Koranic law or to simply annex the land as part of some American empire.
But yeah, Bush is Hitler. And what about women in Afghanistan who now actually might be able to get an education and rise above her status as a piece of cattle? Yawn, that’s not cool so who cares?
Relax & read my post again, I did not downplay anything, and I also did not say anything against W. You sure are easy to trigger.
HEY EVERYONE
SHUT UP
I wasn’t talking about what you said, I was talking about what you and others don’t say. I just don’t understand why there isn’t outrage over what Muslim extremists want. Only outrage over U.S. foreign policy. It’s so absurd. We’re talking about murderers who kill innocent people every single day in Iraq. Women, children, teenagers. Just last week, Steven Vincent, an Author, was killed in Basra. And why? Not just because they want the U.S. out. If that was the case they would target the U.S. Think about it. This journalist is anti-U.S. No, these people actually want the whole world to be an Islamic Republic.
The KKK is a good point of comparison. These people are like the KKK but armed to the teeth, and at war with ordinary people who just want to live their lives. And where is the outrage? There is none. None whatsoever. Just constant bitching about the United States.
So yeah I know that nobody is saying anything. That is exactly the problem in my view.
BTW I guess I’m expressing the same sentiment as Ani’s original post, only I think it would be great if people would put a moritorium on bitching about the U.S. for awhile. Just try it. For one single week, every time you are about to bitch about the U.S. or Bush foreign policy or the american media, instead, express outrage over Jihadis and how many innocents they have killed in the last 30+ years.
It might take a while to get used to this change, and you might have to actually do some research into the subject since criticism of America is so much easier to come by.
Then do something about it—write a protest song, or make a documentary, or do a painting or drawing—that expresses your feelings about the innocent lives that are lost everyday in the name of Allah.
Yo, Beck.
It would be nice to see you start a blog.
And I’m being respectful here when I say this.
Lemme know, please, if you decide to start one.
In response to beck’s question “why there isn’t outrage over what Muslim extremists want. Only outrage over U.S. foreign policy.” I say education on the issues is the culprit.
One answer could be the media, and how ‘the war’ gets the attention that the newsmakers want. But I’m not really a fan of blaming the media for everything. Who funds the media, what are their interests, who do they associate & do business with? That’s a better place to look, but there are too many questions involved to get into that here.
A simpler angle would be to consider the effects of the United States’ foreign policy in the past 60 years VS. the effects of the Islamic fundamentalists.
American (and I hate that term, because it isn’t accurate)… American influence is felt far more than Islamic influence, if there is such a thing, in most ‘western’ societies. The Yanks are an easy target because we know more about them. Bottom line.
How much do people know about Islamic extremists? How much do people know about their leaders and policies, or lack therof?
I think everyone should check out a documentary called THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES.
I think you can read about it at http://bbc.co.uk/nightmares
cheers. j!